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 2013-7-24 changelog/direction

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Northern.Lite
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:04 pm

LOL computers and software are great when they work, right? Razz The map is available in both the maps folder and the maps config folder so that is a puzzle.

Thanks, Triton.  Let me know if they do not get back to you on it.
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Triton144
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Fixed it. Can be filtered once the game is rehosted using load.

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Dub
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:14 pm

the_deku_nutt wrote:
Dub wrote:
It would be great if you could like triton said, be able to set it up so the small or medium bnet filter puts it under that category, I can't join games by typing in the name and have to look for it on the main list for the beta.


If you took the time to read the thread, you would discover that this was already discussed thoroughly. It was determined to be a bot issue, not a map issue.


Dubghall contributing nothing as usual.  

Want some cheese with your whine bro?
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Northern.Lite
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:28 pm

Filter still not working, awaiting a reply from the ghost bot server staff.
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Northern.Lite
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:37 pm

Hooray! Got it figured out and the Beta games are now showing in the small maps filter listing as desired. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:47 am

On a serious note, I dislike the global leaks concept. I believe it encourages players to be lazy if they know that other competent players are working to get leaks. I don't like the slayer fountain being so close to the spawn/vamp base area because it's no longer an investment to judge whether or not to run over or not to the top ( as in 1.5). That's all I have so far.

Edit: In 1.5 humans also got a lumber bonus at the timer, if you just reinstated the previous method, it would encourage people to hunt for leaks because they could be farther ahead.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:27 am

grabbing leaks is more of a ping and luck matter, not about being competent. also one human only getting a leak is unfun


Last edited by opaca on Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:39 am; edited 2 times in total
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Triton144
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:31 am

As of 25b the unholy is incredibly strong. It takes all the slayers to kill one if a vamp is guarding it. And people usually just aren't that nice. And even though the cd is longer if a vamp buys it before your slayer reaches 25ish there is nothing you can do about it cause you can't make more towers to kill it.

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Dub
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:24 am

opaca wrote:
grabbing leaks is more of a ping and luck matter, not about being competent. also one human only getting a leak is unfun

Well then Mark needs to decide if he wants the map to reward players who go out of their way to get leaks, like if they get 2 for selling it and everybody else gets one, or just leave the game to a point where everybody will eventually learn which corners to cut at points in the game as humans.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:34 am

Dub wrote:

Well then Mark needs to decide if he wants the map to reward players who go out of their way to get leaks, like if they get 2 for selling it and everybody else gets one, or just leave the game to a point where everybody will eventually learn which corners to cut at points in the game as humans.


If you had played the new version even once you'd know that global leaks already rewards players who actively try to get leaks, in exactly the manner that you've described. The player who sells the leaks gets the normal sell gold + 1.

Don't make critically useless comments without even having a clue what you're talking about; that just makes more informed players laugh at you.
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Northern.Lite
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:20 am

Actually, Deku, he has played the new version and his description indicates that he does understand how the current leak selling system works in the beta.

Also, your continuous sarcasm (or the term Frozen uses for it, if you like) does nothing to encourage new players to want to join the community or to post their comments on the beta.  Please stop indulging in it at every possible opportunity.  

Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:40 am

Northern.Lite wrote:
Actually, Deku, he has played the new version and his description indicates that he does understand how the current leak selling system works in the beta.

Also, your continuous sarcasm (or the term Frozen uses for it, if you like) does nothing to encourage new players to want to join the community or to post their comments on the beta.  Please stop indulging in it at every possible opportunity.  

Thank you.

*looks down at crutch*

Fuck I wish mine was as big as deku nut Sad

- Nothing further
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:42 pm

the_deku_nutt wrote:
Dub wrote:

Well then Mark needs to decide if he wants the map to reward players who go out of their way to get leaks, like if they get 2 for selling it and everybody else gets one, or just leave the game to a point where everybody will eventually learn which corners to cut at points in the game as humans.


If you had played the new version even once you'd know that global leaks already rewards players who actively try to get leaks, in exactly the manner that you've described. The player who sells the leaks gets the normal sell gold + 1.

Don't make critically useless comments without even having a clue what you're talking about; that just makes more informed players laugh at you.

You do know that you're cancer right? You didn't even read what I wrote. Anyway I would like to hear Mark's opinion on it.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:57 pm

My opinion on what?

Dub wrote:
Well then Mark needs to decide if he wants the map to reward players who go out of their way to get leaks, like if they get 2 for selling it and everybody else gets one, or just leave the game to a point where everybody will eventually learn which corners to cut at points in the game as humans.

You start your post by implying that the person who got the leak is in the same boat as everyone else, and you then suggest that the seller should get 2 gold as opposed to the 1 that the seller allegedly got before. However, this is how it has worked from the start. If this isn't what you meant from the start, perhaps you worded it poorly because that is the message that I got when I read your post.

I don't know what you want my opinion on, so I'll just address the laziness issue for now. Lets assume that everyone including the seller gets 1 gold per leak (which isn't how it works now just to clarify). Under this system it would still benefit you to get leaks because it makes the rest of your team stronger and less likely to feed or die. Also, going for leaks puts things in your hands. If you don't go for leaks you can expect to get none/less of them otherwise. Sure, you can still get gold if you don't even try. That isn't exactly a bad thing because you're still benefiting the person who got it by being harder for the vamps to deal with. Also, most games don't have humans acquiring 10+ leaks, so it becomes a problem to try to balance around leaks vs. no leaks economies. I think everyone can agree that the jump in economy from 0->1 gold from leaks is more significant than 1->2 gold from leaks.

Northern.Lite wrote:
Also, your continuous sarcasm (or the term Frozen uses for it, if you like)

NO. I said abrasive douchebaggery. Get it right.

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Northern.Lite
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:26 pm

LOL! "Sarcasm" or "abrasive douchebaggery"... to be honest I see those terms as virtually synonymous. If there is a significant difference please explain it. Rolling Eyes 

Either way, I hope that you can agree, the behaviour I referred to in my post (from anyone) will not induce people to join the vb community, nor does it encourage people to write the comments and suggestions that you (as the mapmaker) have indicated you want to receive (and which I have accordingly been encouraging them to write when I hear them).

Finally, where does the extra gold to the seller even get mentioned in Dub's post?

Dub wrote:
On a serious note, I dislike the global leaks concept. I believe it encourages players to be lazy if they know that other competent players are working to get leaks.

NOW who needs to get it right?! lol! 

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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:46 pm

NorthernLite wrote:
Actually, Deku, he has played the new version and his description indicates that he does understand how the current leak selling system works in the beta.

If he doesn't understand how the current leak selling system works, then why is he making uninformed posts in the section where it's expected users will have sufficient understanding to give cogent balance arguments?



Northern.Lite wrote:

Finally, where does the extra gold to the seller even get mentioned in Dub's post?  

Dub wrote:
Well then Mark needs to decide if he wants the map to reward players who go out of their way to get leaks, like if they get 2 for selling it and everybody else gets one


Right there. He just phrases it poorly so it isn't clear.


As for my behaviour, I've always been more than willing to educate newer players on anything they're interested in knowing. As for Dubghall, he has in the past been personally offensive to me well beyond the confines of rudeness in an online game e.g. resorting to personal attacks based on information he knows about my personal life.
Given that, I take every opportunity (read: frequently) to call him out for being the waste of space that he is.

As for driving away new players, I fail to see how telling Dubghall that he's incompetent is going to drive away someone. I didn't swear, I didn't curse, I simply stated that he didn't have his facts straight. He made a comment about a topic that was already determined to be unrelated to the bot; that made it apparent that HE was in fact the one not reading posts. Speaking of which:

Dub wrote:
You didn't even read what I wrote

Your opening post into this thread was one where you failed to read any of the posts before it. I'm not offended by being called cancer by the way, go for it. I actually quoted you in my response and made point by point comparisons, but sure, I totally didn't read your post.


FHF wrote:
NO. I said abrasive douchebaggery. Get it right.

Thank you for defending my reputation.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:59 pm

Hi Deku,

Although i'm not a frequent poster of as yet, you seem to have misunderstood Dub, but your misunderstanding of his intentions is blatantly obvious.


Who Cares wrote:
NorthernLite wrote:
Actually, Deku, he has played the new version and his description indicates that he does understand how the current leak selling system works in the beta.

Deku:
If he doesn't understand how the current leak selling system works, then why is he making uninformed posts in the section where it's expected users will have sufficient understanding to give cogent balance arguments?

Although i'm not picking sides, there's an aggressive atmosphere around this post, I don't want to come between your personal matters with Dub, but he simply stated a mechanic of the game, in this case the gold drops, and referred to a possible solution (according to his personal opinion) and suggested that mark read the post and express his opinion (which frozen did), I personally don't see his misinformed intelligence coming into play, since a suggestion can be as dumb or smart depending on the way you perceive that suggestion from your experience, with this i'm referring back to your personal feelings coming into play and perhaps misunderstood his message, which happens, no harm done.

P.S Dub you're a douche bag.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:19 pm

I will say that the posts perhaps stated things too briefly and conclusions were read into them. That said, I knew that Dub had played the beta with global drops (because I was in the game with him) and he had a right to say he disagreed with what was being done in this instance (i.e., feedback as fhf requested). I viewed the second post of the two as a simple restatement of the objection.

Sometimes things are posted quickly and "needs reworked". This does not call for ANYONE to be subjected to sarcasm from any of us on here. Posts in a public forums section like this one should not include any personal garbage from ANYONE. It reflects negatively on us all in our efforts to build the vb community and get the new map out.

Apologies if I have inadvertently injured any feelings. Keep it non-personal people and just discuss the map.

Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-7-24 changelog/direction   Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:41 pm

Northern.Lite wrote:
I will say that the posts perhaps stated things too briefly and conclusions were read into them.  That said, I knew that Dub had played the beta with global drops (because I was in the game with him) and he had a right to say he disagreed with what was being done in this instance (i.e., feedback as fhf requested).  I viewed the second post of the two as a  simple restatement of the objection.  
 

Hi Northern,

Good you stood up and settled the personal matter, but back to subject, you seem to also not understand deku's point, there seems to be an bridge between two parties here, which i'm not sure why is there in the first place (which the only person that seems to understood the suggestion was frozen), the suggestion implied by Dub, says that HE "disagrees" with the global leak concept as he thinks that
Dub wrote:
I believe it encourages players to be lazy if they know that other competent players are working to get leaks"
and than went on to saying that he prefers the method of selling gold gives the seller 2 and the others get 1.

This was to clarify the possibly confusion still airing.

Frozen wrote:
If you don't go for leaks you can expect to get none/less of them otherwise. Sure, you can still get gold if you don't even try. That isn't exactly a bad thing because you're still benefiting the person who got it by being harder for the vamps to deal with. Also, most games don't have humans acquiring 10+ leaks, so it becomes a problem to try to balance around leaks vs. no leaks economies. I think everyone can agree that the jump in economy from 0->1 gold from leaks is more significant than 1->2 gold from leaks.
I think this is a good explanation to your answer, which dub should carefully review.

I personally can't contribute much to this beta discussion, as i'm not informed enough of the features to make an subjective proposal for balance, therefore i'd simply refer back to frozen's post which makes to much sense to combat.

- cUppa
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