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 I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion

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popopxD
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PostSubject: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:39 pm


  • Change goldincome stats from multiboard to leaderboard, add a multiboard of other's player resource and feed (leak for vamp) (like in Vamp fire)
  • When someone build a feedbox/bloodbox, a notice will send to all of the player the position and a text "...." has built a bloodbox, comming with a switch -disablefeed <color> to stop that player from building more feedbox/bloodbox and -removefeed to remove all feed global.
  • There should be 2 areas to put the item for vamp, 1 is for all vamp can access, 1 other is for only main vamp can access. problem is sometimes, i put all of the trash in there because i will use it later, suddenly a fallen human's lich come and use them all. Woh, i don't like that
  • Hotkey for exchange gold -> wood. I would like to spam my keyboard , than using the mouse..... :-/
  • If i remember correctly, health bank require manual leech each 9 sec. I suggest Health bank will have 2 mode: auto and manual (like morphling in dota), in auto mode, it will only leech 1/8 ~ 1/10 amount of the manual mode. Because some times I need a breath to build my base

  • [Bug] (it's reported but i can still make it)
    Step 1: build gold fountain of wealth, make some stack gold for that fountain
    Step 2: build gold spring of wealth
    Step 3: destroy gold spring of wealth

    Expected: goldincome = 0
    Actual: goldincome = no change

  • [Not about the map but this is the main reason why I don't play the map currently] I think this map will be Vampirism Beast 2.0...., right ? Okay, I suggest we should remove more known bug and give it to ClanVBL2. Sometimes, we temporally suspend ClanVBL (just use !autostart 13 and make it announce: Today, we are not playing vamprisim beast 1.500f, instead, people will try VB 2.0 beta on ClanVBL2, VB 1.500f will resume tomorrow. At least it force people to go to VB 2.0. I like the map but the problem is no one is playing it !!!

  • [Not important] Prevent hack. Okay, this is something i think about the anti hack, there are 2 ways I have got to see if it's okay or not
      - Keep track's player resource to another variable. When they cheat, their resource number won't match the "secret" number -> Auto kick
      - A lesser work around is to add a listener to trigger "-gold xxx" and "-wood xxx" and "-lumber xxx", "-agi xxx", "-int xxx" and "-str xxx". And check if the command is actually working (for example, the player got his damn 900 gold after typing that, or strength of the unit is changed when he type "-str xxx") This won't help u prevent 100% cheater, but at least....90% of the cheat pack will fail in this case because they are auto cheat pack. Also encode the string, at least , for example var a="-hpme" and decode a = "-gold" because the next alphabet of g -> h, o -> p, l -> m, d -> e. At least these will help us prevent 90% cheater.
  • [not really important]If it's possible (this feature is quite complex), add the command "-forbid <color>" to forbid a certain player from enter your base permantly (except if vamp entered that player's base, the command will auto disabled). This feature prevent someone's slayer from team killing.
  • [not really important]I don't know if it's already yet, but vamp can't use human's item (they can get it from human to sell, but they can't use it. I saw 1 brazil player, decided to side with vamp, he bought the hunter's scope, drop it to a secret place, then intentional suicide, and then ... u may know what after that. He picked up the item, use it, use blink and use teleport to that unit
  • [100% not important]There is a nice mode in Troll vs Elf, when a human die, he still be able to play (or choose to be mini, or a repairer, which will go steal gold from vamp and help human defend. Basically our model can't use that "stealing" skill in vb because it too imba (health bank is already enough for stealing), but at least he can help human.
    This idea because many many people (including me) get shocked because of side change. No one don't like to die, even some of them want to continue to play, but they dead, and vamp took their mini violently (without asking).
    Basically, I propose this balance mode:
    + If human choose to join side with vamp, vamp will still be able to kill him to get the mini
    + If human choose to join side with human after dead, he will get something like slayer, but very low ealth (magic immune to vamp's chain, lich's skill) and can be kill in 1 hit by vamp, very limited sight (to prevent from spying vamp), slow speed (can be kill by vamp easily), when killed, get respawn after some minute. With a price: the main vamp (who killed him) will get a mini plus 1/4~1/6 of his income
    This is just a proposal, i think it mostly be reject, but mostly fallen human won't listen to vamp because of shocking. I got familiar with it, by the way, I can deny vamp to take my mini by leaving, it can be the same if human is trying to gank me....they won't get the kill xD


Last edited by popopxD on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:03 pm

I also had an idea: as it is, we only have gems for towers. what if there were gems for walls? maybe even bring back the greed gem, but instead of % to give resources when it attacks, % to give resources when the wall is attacked
this way theres a downside to afk'ing for 10 minutes on a wall with debit card

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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:04 pm

nice, the people who had been gank by vamp won't whining because of their bad luck Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:32 pm

it would prevent people from getting too far behind by getting focused down by the vamp, but as a vamp, it would be unfair to put so much effort into trying to slow down a specific player's tech only to realize that youre wasting your time
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:27 pm

Just a note to your anti hack: You cannot hack gold or lumber except with a cheatpack coded into the map. So there is no way to hack resources on official bots that host the real map. Any other attempts to modify your resources will cause you to desync and disconnect so don't worry about people hacking gold. Worry more about map hackers which are very prevalent.

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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:13 pm

Triton144 wrote:
Just a note to your anti hack: You cannot hack gold or lumber except with a cheatpack coded into the map. So there is no way to hack resources on official bots that host the real map. Any other attempts to modify your resources will cause you to desync and disconnect so don't worry about people hacking gold. Worry more about map hackers which are very prevalent.
Sorry for misunderstand but It was intended to prevent people from making cheat map and upload it to epicwar to fool another people.

My first time playing VB is on Gameranger, which relied on epicwar/hiveworkshop to download custom maps.
The bot is also not 100% available to Garena, I often have to switch room to see CLanVBL bot's room. So whenever the official bot is not available, there are chance for cheat map.
I forgot that the idea was not important (somewhat complex) so I editted the post to add the tag [not important]
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:37 pm

I'll try to address all your suggestions as best I can Popop; I appreciate seeing threads with some feedback.


Quote :
Change goldincome stats from multiboard to leaderboard, add a multiboard of other's player resource and feed (leak for vamp) (like in Vamp fire)
It could be done, but it doesn't serve any practical function. It seems like a bragging rights kind of thing.

Quote :
When someone build a feedbox/bloodbox, a notice will send to all of the player the position and a text "...." has built a bloodbox, comming with a switch -disablefeed <color> to stop that player from building more feedbox/bloodbox and -removefeed to remove all feed global.
We intend to simply remove all bloodboxes from the game entirely. Their concept is flawed and doesn't contribute to the game.

Quote :
There should be 2 areas to put the item for vamp, 1 is for all vamp can access, 1 other is for only main vamp can access. problem is sometimes, i put all of the trash in there because i will use it later, suddenly a fallen human's lich come and use them all. Woh, i don't like that
That's a reasonable suggestion.

Quote :
Hotkey for exchange gold -> wood. I would like to spam my keyboard , than using the mouse..... :-/
There is a hotkey, it just isn't shown in the tooltip. It's either "D" or "G", I can't remember offhand.


Quote :
If i remember correctly, health bank require manual leech each 9 sec. I suggest Health bank will have 2 mode: auto and manual (like morphling in dota), in auto mode, it will only leech 1/8 ~ 1/10 amount of the manual mode. Because some times I need a breath to build my base
This won't happen, the whole concept behind this version of the map is rewarding players with some micro/macro. Besides, 1/10th of the drain wouldn't be even remotely substantial enough to be worth implementing.

Quote :
[Bug] (it's reported but i can still make it)
Step 1: build gold fountain of wealth, make some stack gold for that fountain
Step 2: build gold spring of wealth
Step 3: destroy gold spring of wealth

Expected: goldincome = 0
Actual: goldincome = no change
We know, it'll get fixed eventually.

Quote :

[Not about the map but this is the main reason why I don't play the map currently] I think this map will be Vampirism Beast 2.0...., right ? Okay, I suggest we should remove more known bug and give it to ClanVBL2. Sometimes, we temporally suspend ClanVBL (just use !autostart 13 and make it announce: Today, we are not playing vamprisim beast 1.500f, instead, people will try VB 2.0 beta on ClanVBL2, VB 1.500f will resume tomorrow. At least it force people to go to VB 2.0. I like the map but the problem is no one is playing it !!!
That's a Clan VBL internal issue, so I can't comment on that.

Quote :
[Not important] Prevent hack. Okay, this is something i think about the anti hack, there are 2 ways I have got to see if it's okay or not
 - Keep track's player resource to another variable. When they cheat, their resource number won't match the "secret" number -> Auto kick
 - A lesser work around is to add a listener to trigger "-gold xxx" and "-wood xxx" and "-lumber xxx", "-agi xxx", "-int xxx" and "-str xxx". And check if the command is actually working (for example, the player got his damn 900 gold after typing that, or strength of the unit is changed when he type "-str xxx") This won't help u prevent 100% cheater, but at least....90% of the cheat pack will fail in this case because they are auto cheat pack. Also encode the string, at least , for example var a="-hpme" and decode a = "-gold" because the next alphabet of g -> h, o -> p, l -> m, d -> e. At least these will help us prevent 90% cheater.
The only maps that can cheat gold and lumber are cheappacked maps. Since VBL kindly hosts maps with ~100% uptime, there's no reason you should bother playing on other hosting services anyways.

Quote :
[not really important]If it's possible (this feature is quite complex), add the command "-forbid <color>" to forbid a certain player from enter your base permantly (except if vamp entered that player's base, the command will auto disabled). This feature prevent someone's slayer from team killing.
This feature is already planned.

Quote :
[not really important]I don't know if it's already yet, but vamp can't use human's item (they can get it from human to sell, but they can't use it. I saw 1 brazil player, decided to side with vamp, he bought the hunter's scope, drop it to a secret place, then intentional suicide, and then ... u may know what after that. He picked up the item, use it, use blink and use teleport to that unit
That's a good point that hasn't arisen in test scenarios. I'll bring it up.

Quote :
[100% not important]There is a nice mode in Troll vs Elf, when a human die, he still be able to play (or choose to be mini, or a repairer, which will go steal gold from vamp and help human defend. Basically our model can't use that "stealing" skill in vb because it too imba (health bank is already enough for stealing), but at least he can help human.
This idea because many many people (including me) get shocked because of side change. No one don't like to die, even some of them want to continue to play, but they dead, and vamp took their mini violently (without asking).
Basically, I propose this balance mode:
+ If human choose to join side with vamp, vamp will still be able to kill him to get the mini
+ If human choose to join side with human after dead, he will get something like slayer, but very low ealth (magic immune to vamp's chain, lich's skill) and can be kill in 1 hit by vamp, very limited sight (to prevent from spying vamp), slow speed (can be kill by vamp easily), when killed, get respawn after some minute. With a price: the main vamp (who killed him) will get a mini plus 1/4~1/6 of his income
I understand that dying as a human then losing your mini is frustrating, but I don't see anything coming to VB with a focus on addressing this. It's simply a case of you died, you lost.

Quote :
This is just a proposal, i think it mostly be reject, but mostly fallen human won't listen to vamp because of shocking. I got familiar with it, by the way, I can deny vamp to take my mini by leaving, it can be the same if human is trying to gank me....they won't get the kill xD
We're actually planning the create a delay time between minis leaving and when their unit disappears, to prevent vamps from denying minis.




Now that I've addressed his points, I'll address opaca's and czydudes discussion regarding vampires being able to focus on particular humans. It's always been a problem that vampires could just ruin the one or two top tier players in an average game by simply focusing all their efforts on them. Considering how much more impactful that is in this version, we've already designed a system intended to greatly diminish vampires ability to just run down the good players and then farm the noobs for an easy win.
We've got in working, we just need to tweak some numbers on it to make sure it's at least somewhat balanced.

About the greed gems, those would have to be so useless in order to be balanced that there would no point in implementing them at all. The human economy doesn't need any more buffs; post command center is still really strong.
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:37 pm

the_deku_nutt wrote:
Now that I've addressed his points, I'll address opaca's and czydudes discussion regarding vampires being able to focus on particular humans. It's always been a problem that vampires could just ruin the one or two top tier players in an average game by simply focusing all their efforts on them. Considering how much more impactful that is in this version, we've already designed a system intended to greatly diminish vampires ability to just run down the good players and then farm the noobs for an easy win.
We've got in working, we just need to tweak some numbers on it to make sure it's at least somewhat balanced.
TELL US TELL US TELL US! wait let me guess top 2 players get free banish flute. Am I right??

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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:20 pm

greed gem was just an idea for a wall gem, but the main idea is still wall gems

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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:45 am

Thanks Deku for the reply, looking forward to the next release version Very Happy

Triton144 wrote:

TELL US TELL US TELL US! wait let me guess top 2 players get free banish flute. Am I right??
O_o top 2 each game ? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:37 am

does it have something to do with thorns aura?
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:54 am

global thorns aura, vamps take stacking spike damage for moving

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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:04 pm

Walls have a stacking thorns aura that currently adds .75 damage per attack. The stacks last until the vampires stop attacking the wall for about 2 minutes iirc. It wasn't intended to be a global event, it's fixed already.

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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:22 pm

deku_nutt wrote:

When someone build a feedbox/bloodbox, a notice will send to all of the player the position and a text "...." has built a bloodbox, comming with a switch -disablefeed <color> to stop that player from building more feedbox/bloodbox and -removefeed to remove all feed global.

We intend to simply remove all bloodboxes from the game entirely. Their concept is flawed and doesn't contribute to the game.

Removing the blood box system seems fair, however the feeding system is a necessary feature, namely being how noob vamps may need a little boost in their play, or the nosf doesnt have much feed at all. I suggests having a new trigger that is set with a voting style that gives the player as much feed as the human sets. for example, Vampire A dies and leaves Vampire B with almost no feed at all. Vampire B calls attention to the problem and the humans all agree to helping him out.

Human A: -Feed [vampire A] Gold 100 lumber 500
Human B, C, D etc..:-vote

The if the vote is unanimous then the vampire in question would recieve 100 gold and 500 lumber.

Now obviously the command for the vote initiation would be different, but i think you get it.

Well thats my 2 cents about the feeding problem. with this a player cannot just help the vamp by feeding without consent, and the amount would be agreed on without having to watch the amount of boxes the player places.

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Last edited by Ritalin on Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Was in a rush, so i couldnt write properly.)
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:27 pm

And another suggestion i forgot to add is about the fantass wall icon. That may cause problem to pro for changing because they are familiar with it, but at least it won't make newbies build wrong thing. Base stats of fantass wall and the price (and even super fantass) is better than a wall. So that misunderstand will cause the newbie build fantass wall instead of wall for their protection, which is wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:25 pm

actually, mass super fatass walls is better than regular walls.
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:52 pm

Ritalin wrote:

Removing the blood box system seems fair, however you cannot get rid of the feeding system entirely, maybe have a trigger such as -feed (name of vamp) (amount of gold/lumber) which creates a voting system with other humans say -vote. Say you need 90% of humans to -vote and it will give the amount of gold to the nosf.

A bad player with gold and experience is still a bad player, giving them arbitrary farm means nothing. The feeding system is going to be removed entirely.
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:23 pm

the_deku_nutt wrote:
Ritalin wrote:

Removing the blood box system seems fair, however you cannot get rid of the feeding system entirely, maybe have a trigger such as -feed (name of vamp) (amount of gold/lumber) which creates a voting system with other humans say -vote. Say you need 90% of humans to -vote and it will give the amount of gold to the nosf.
A bad player with gold and experience is still a bad player, giving them arbitrary farm means nothing. The feeding system is going to be removed entirely.
I agree with this, Yeah sometimes its nice to have a fun game with a bad nosf that knows hes bad but is having fun learning, so feeding them and watching them figure stuff out can be entertaining, But it doesnt make the vamp learn much, Getting fed a shard is totally different from learning how to farm a shard so you can buy it immediatly.

Also the vamps not using human items, Seems a little one sided, A bad nosf drops an item and both nosfs are punished by a instantly stronger human side, Shouldnt Humans be punished for a human failing to deny an item they have dropped for some reason the same way vamps are. Nosfs have to either be fast to pick it up or be fast to deny the item, Humans should have to be that aware when a nosf breaks a base with items on the floor to realise and destroy them.

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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:30 pm

Sir. wrote:
the_deku_nutt wrote:
Ritalin wrote:

Removing the blood box system seems fair, however you cannot get rid of the feeding system entirely, maybe have a trigger such as -feed (name of vamp) (amount of gold/lumber) which creates a voting system with other humans say -vote. Say you need 90% of humans to -vote and it will give the amount of gold to the nosf.
A bad player with gold and experience is still a bad player, giving them arbitrary farm means nothing. The feeding system is going to be removed entirely.
I agree with this, Yeah sometimes its nice to have a fun game with a bad nosf that knows hes bad but is having fun learning, so feeding them and watching them figure stuff out can be entertaining, But it doesnt make the vamp learn much, Getting fed a shard is totally different from learning how to farm a shard so you can buy it immediatly.

Also the vamps not using human items, Seems a little one sided, A bad nosf drops an item and both nosfs are punished by a instantly stronger human side, Shouldnt Humans be punished for a human failing to deny an item they have dropped for some reason the same way vamps are. Nosfs have to either be fast to pick it up or be fast to deny the item, Humans should have to be that aware when a nosf breaks a base with items on the floor to realise and destroy them.
I agree with sir. If a human mistakingly drops an arrow, is that the vamps fault? If a human intentionally drops an item to help the vamp, then we can calmly explain to the vampire that he needs to drop it. and if he doesnt, then we can convince him with a nice votekick Razz 

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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:02 pm

Its still abusive. I think we should just prevent either side from getting items from the other team altogether. In exchange for humans not getting vamp items, humans can get some new stuff in the now relatively empty citadel/vault
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PostSubject: Re: I like vampirism beast beta and I have some suggestion   Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:43 pm

czydude wrote:
actually, mass super fatass walls is better than regular walls.
Mass super fantass is good, but this is epic.....
http://clanvbl.lunaghost.com/game/8949/

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