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 Map Direction

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opaca
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:22 pm

yes

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:24 pm

opaca wrote:
yes
Join game and teach me how to nosf btw. Trying to find replays trough player is a bitch (because it simply doesn't work to click replays after going to the player menu) and all the ones on the forums are deleted or return the same error page >.> The requested URL /game/12509 was not found on this server.

Not to mention there is no list of items (how the fuck do you even get a creditcard) and the topic that sais "list of all items" displays nothing for me >.>
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:20 pm

lettergreep wrote:
opaca wrote:
yes
Join game and teach me how to nosf btw. Trying to find replays trough player is a bitch (because it simply doesn't work to click replays after going to the player menu) and all the ones on the forums are deleted or return the same error page >.> The requested URL /game/12509 was not found on this server.

Not to mention there is no list of items (how the fuck do you even get a creditcard) and the topic that sais "list of all items" displays nothing for me >.>

The only items that matter are refresh potion and claws of the dreadlord; don't you worry your pretty little head over the other ones.

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:12 am

lettergreep wrote:

Join game and teach me how to nosf btw.

only play vampire if there are new players to feed you, anything else is a waste of your time, that's the best tip anyone can give you

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:00 pm

Suggestion: make ring of regeneration only worth one (1) gold. If the RNG gods happen to shine upon a lucky human who snags this item early enough, the game is pretty much over.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:08 pm

that's some wishful thinking. Triton will never buff vampires

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:06 pm

lettergreep wrote:
Suggestion: make ring of regeneration only worth one (1) gold. If the RNG gods happen to shine upon a lucky human who snags this item early enough, the game is pretty much over.

^----

When a new player has ideas that actually seem logical.

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:38 pm

Thats not true, if I get a ring all you have to do is have opaca buy 3 frenchmen.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:27 pm

Chewbaccula wrote:
Thats not true, if I get a ring all you have to do is have opaca buy 3 frenchmen.

Not everyone can cock slap you like opaca can Razz

Rings should at most give 2 gold, that's a vault and lumber house paid for so still well within the 9 min gold mine area but not so op as to give you 2 free workers aswel.

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:20 pm

after that fix i will be vamp forever

wall can't hold vamp like they have to be anymore ..... now with the ring :-/
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:59 am

By the way, how does everyone actually feel about slayers? (especially prosperity slayer).

I feel like they're fairly inactive the entire game barring the first 10 minutes or so when looking for leaks or ganks (and ganking is really just abusing the overpoweredness of their numbers and nosf early game weakness).

I actually don't even know all of the slayer hammers (I think there's more than three...) but I'm not at my computer so can't check.

*Repair slayer: you don't want to get this for several reasons, during the early game (pre command center) when it could be super useful it's overly expensive, no one wants to spend 20 gold and 30k lumber when they're trying to get their CC timing.
*Battle slayer: useless until you have a spire and copious amounts of gold to get shards yourself, and even then only if the nosfs did not unholy the place up
*Prosperity slayer: in a word, imbalanced. The most inactive type of slayer, yet at the same time the most useful one. Again, it's been years since I played this game so I don't know all the timings for prosperity players with(out) leaks, but I do know it's perfectly possible to win games without one.

My suggestions below to make them somewhat interactive / equalize usefulness, without nerfing prosperity into the ground, and this means buffing the other two. This means nosfs need buffs because they're already fighting an uphill battle. I will post more for them later after I played more games with them but right now I don't know what I'm talking about when they are the subject, I just found out where to get the credit card (NOT the lich market you damned two-faced liars!), and I haven't used anything like tremble or boom gems either. Arguably, I'm not the best human either, but I know all of their possibilities and when to use them, which gives me some perspective. While nosfs is still just a wild stab in the dark for me (but really, they seem to need buffs, especially on some of the lumber cost prices).

For all slayer types, including basic non-hammered slayer:
-When carrying a leak, take 200% increased damage and movespeed reduced by 50%
-When in the proximity of another slayer he will take increased damage and reduce damage done by 25% (this means a three man slayer gank party will have their damage reduced by 50%, and damage taken increased with 50%)
-Can no longer attack allied buildings and units

For repair slayer:
-Increase repair range to 1000 but have the repair amount taper off with range (the further away the less he repairs, current max range and closer is max repair amount). Would be interesting to have if this is possible with the WC3 engine
-Can no longer purchase any items from nosf shops
-Acts as a super fatass wall, each slayer upgrade adds one super fatass
-Gains armor aura (works on buildings), +20 armor as starting, gains another +20 armor on the aura for each slayer upgrade researched

Prosperity slayer:
-Can harvest lumber (harvests as much lumber as your best harvesting unit, can he do this already? Or could he do this back in the day? I really don't remember / know >.>)
-Can no longer summon knights
-Can no longer purchase any item from nosf shops

Battle slayer:
-Can no longer summon knights
-Reduces cooldown on snare
-Reduces cooldown on avatar form thingy
-Remove current damage aura
-Has a damage aura which increases the damage dealt by towers around the slayers (not global)
-Has a weakness aura (400 AoE), reducing enemy damage by 10%, each slayer upgrade increases this with another 5%
-Takes increased damage if a nosf is in his weakness aura (as much as he reduces, nosf needs to attack and kill the slayer if he wants to deal real damage to the wall, which is exactly the point of this slayer, fighting off nosfs)

This means only the repair slayer will be able to help out with repairing (knights), this means only the battle slayer can purchase lategame items required to battle nosfs, and it means prosperity is weaker overall because the other two have become stronger.

Take into account, all numbers are just there as an example, and should probably be changed. It's the general idea of having a repair slayer repair, prosperity slayer prosper, and battle slayer battle. No combination of things, each their own seperate niche that no other can fulfill.

/edit:
For nosfs, how about humans can only destroy buildings with their human in bases they claimed and do not have a nosf in them? This way when you finally do break that wall, you can actually get some gold and food. Right now this is my biggest annoyance as a vampire, that once you get in, there's usually nothing left to destroy and take gold from.

Also, sorry for the long post, I'm a volunteer developer in some other games and the only way I know to play games is to actively try and improve them at the same time.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:22 am

i don't agree with this suggestion
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:26 am

lettergreep wrote:
By the way, how does everyone actually feel about slayers? (especially prosperity slayer).

I feel like they're fairly inactive the entire game barring the first 10 minutes or so when looking for leaks or ganks (and ganking is really just abusing the overpoweredness of their numbers and nosf early game weakness).

I actually don't even know all of the slayer hammers (I think there's more than three...) but I'm not at my computer so can't check.

*Repair slayer: you don't want to get this for several reasons, during the early game (pre command center) when it could be super useful it's overly expensive, no one wants to spend 20 gold and 30k lumber when they're trying to get their CC timing.
*Battle slayer: useless until you have a spire and copious amounts of gold to get shards yourself, and even then only if the nosfs did not unholy the place up
*Prosperity slayer: in a word, imbalanced. The most inactive type of slayer, yet at the same time the most useful one. Again, it's been years since I played this game so I don't know all the timings for prosperity players with(out) leaks, but I do know it's perfectly possible to win games without one.

My suggestions below to make them somewhat interactive / equalize usefulness, without nerfing prosperity into the ground, and this means buffing the other two. This means nosfs need buffs because they're already fighting an uphill battle. I will post more for them later after I played more games with them but right now I don't know what I'm talking about when they are the subject, I just found out where to get the credit card (NOT the lich market you damned two-faced liars!), and I haven't used anything like tremble or boom gems either. Arguably, I'm not the best human either, but I know all of their possibilities and when to use them, which gives me some perspective. While nosfs is still just a wild stab in the dark for me (but really, they seem to need buffs, especially on some of the lumber cost prices).

For all slayer types, including basic non-hammered slayer:
-When carrying a leak, take 200% increased damage and movespeed reduced by 50%
-When in the proximity of another slayer he will take increased damage and reduce damage done by 25% (this means a three man slayer gank party will have their damage reduced by 50%, and damage taken increased with 50%)
-Can no longer attack allied buildings and units

For repair slayer:
-Increase repair range to 1000 but have the repair amount taper off with range (the further away the less he repairs, current max range and closer is max repair amount). Would be interesting to have if this is possible with the WC3 engine
-Can no longer purchase any items from nosf shops
-Acts as a super fatass wall, each slayer upgrade adds one super fatass
-Gains armor aura (works on buildings), +20 armor as starting, gains another +20 armor on the aura for each slayer upgrade researched

Prosperity slayer:
-Can harvest lumber (harvests as much lumber as your best harvesting unit, can he do this already? Or could he do this back in the day? I really don't remember / know >.>)
-Can no longer summon knights
-Can no longer purchase any item from nosf shops

Battle slayer:
-Can no longer summon knights
-Reduces cooldown on snare
-Reduces cooldown on avatar form thingy
-Remove current damage aura
-Has a damage aura which increases the damage dealt by towers around the slayers (not global)
-Has a weakness aura (400 AoE), reducing enemy damage by 10%, each slayer upgrade increases this with another 5%
-Takes increased damage if a nosf is in his weakness aura (as much as he reduces, nosf needs to attack and kill the slayer if he wants to deal real damage to the wall, which is exactly the point of this slayer, fighting off nosfs)

This means only the repair slayer will be able to help out with repairing (knights), this means only the battle slayer can purchase lategame items required to battle nosfs, and it means prosperity is weaker overall because the other two have become stronger.

Take into account, all numbers are just there as an example, and should probably be changed. It's the general idea of having a repair slayer repair, prosperity slayer prosper, and battle slayer battle. No combination of things, each their own seperate niche that no other can fulfill.

/edit:
For nosfs, how about humans can only destroy buildings with their human in bases they claimed and do not have a nosf in them? This way when you finally do break that wall, you can actually get some gold and food. Right now this is my biggest annoyance as a vampire, that once you get in, there's usually nothing left to destroy and take gold from.

Also, sorry for the long post, I'm a volunteer developer in some other games and the only way I know to play games is to actively try and improve them at the same time.

Stop that! You are being far too silly!

Slayers are fine! played a couple games yesterday and not once did anyone try gank as nosfs just sliced through them!

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:30 am

my suggestion adds some global leak and lower the time when the hell gates open to 20 minutes
the forge open at 25 minutes. boost the gold mines income to 4 gold per minutes.

To save time
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:40 am

Sir. wrote:
lettergreep wrote:
snip

Stop that! You are being far too silly!

Slayers are fine! played a couple games yesterday and not once did anyone try gank as nosfs just sliced through them!
They are "fine" but they are BORING. Slayers right now only act as a source of income for the nosf, and later on as a source of income for the humans. When is the last time you actually saw a repair slayer? Why do slayers overlap so much in their capabilities? Why does the best slayer allow you to completely afk with it and still gain full bonuses? If anything prosperity should be the weakest slayer. It's just poor design leading to a stale game.

@waterfire
I will value your posts equal to the amount of effort you put into them. To save time.

If however the general consensus is that the current game is at or close to its peak of enjoyment and balance, then ok, I will stop making suggestions and posting overall feedback.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:06 pm

Lettergreep wrote:
I just found out where to get the credit card (NOT the lich market you damned two-faced liars!)
my sides

I use my slayer to kill frenchmen and scout the map, but most players who abuse walling don't need their slayers as much, or simply don't use them at all.
If slayers were made more "useful", it would most likely be overpowered, especially in inhouse games, where the humans are more coordinated. It would also be a buff to those players who lose their base(or don't even base to begin with), and end up only controlling their slayers the entire game, giving the humans a huge advantage.

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:25 pm

Well obviously like I said, nosfs would need buffs, I'm of the opinion that they already need them as it is. You're in a pretty good position to know what their limitations and capabilities are, so you'd be the best to know what buffs they could use to be set on par with humans. I understand that nosfs will always draw the short straw unless if made ridiculously overpowered by cheap items and huge numbers simply because it's 10 vs 2 and it's so easy to cheese / double base / help out other humans. But that doesn't mean they can't be brought up to a playable level while making humans more interesting to play as well.

Can we actually agree on the fact that the slayer design in its current form is garbage and should be reworked / redefined, or is everyone happy with the bland entities that they are right now?
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:33 pm

they could buff frenchman and pillaging claws

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:40 pm

lettergreep wrote:

-Acts as a super fatass wall, each slayer upgrade adds one super fatass
-Gains armor aura (works on buildings), +20 armor as starting, gains another +20 armor on the aura for each slayer upgrade researched
If you remember holy hammer (for the holy slayer), this is the feature of that holy slayer. I dunno if Triton want the holy hammer finish

lettergreep wrote:

Prosperity slayer:
-Can harvest lumber (harvests as much lumber as your best harvesting unit, can he do this already? Or could he do this back in the day? I really don't remember / know >.>)

Love this idea xD

lettergreep wrote:

-Increase repair range to 1000 but have the repair amount taper off with range (the further away the less he repairs, current max range and closer is max repair amount). Would be interesting to have if this is possible with the WC3 engine

If this get approved I want the range to be global and I will make repair slayer forever Mad

P.S.: Thanks for your long long topic, but here is a tip for you: when you want to make change something already in the game, make sure it only small or people will start complain. Also avoiding change the gameplay/rework or 1 rework per 5 version.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:56 pm

Correct me if im wrong, But the aim of the map is for humans to defend a base and for a vampire to break a base....Slayers shouldn't play a huge role in that and if a role is to played it should be purely for defensive capabilities and tbh they are fine in their current form.

your all use to having slayers that are generally op and your changes make that appear more blatantly.

IF humans consider slayers too weak to fight against a nosf...then the changes have worked, if a fully teched slayer with items still gets wrecked by a vamp on the same amount of stats and items level, the changes have worked but if a slayer with the same amount of stats and some of the mid game items starts to actually force a nosf away from a wall singlehandedly then the slayers are op again.

Personally I feel like slayers shouldn't be able to attack a nosf but only the mini's and vamp spawned units and graves.


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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:32 pm

Mêh, I tried. you guys need to stop forgetting that I do mention that nosfs are already the weaker of the two (in my opinion), and that if humans are buffed even more they /definitely/ need some significant buffs first. Really, stop saying overpowered or underpowered, anything can be pointed to the other direction by changing numbers. I'm talking about the general idea of giving slayers a real role to partake in the game.

Sir. wrote:
Personally I feel like slayers shouldn't be able to attack a nosf but only the mini's and vamp spawned units and graves.
How about only battle slayers can attack a nosf?
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:38 pm

lettergreep wrote:


Sir. wrote:
Personally I feel like slayers shouldn't be able to attack a nosf but only the mini's and vamp spawned units and graves.
How about only battle slayers can attack a nosf?

@Sir & lettergreep: If they can't attack vamp, why should they named "slayer" ? Vampire Slayer is a unit trained to kill vampires. If they can't do their duty, they should be fired. #shouldnotwaste400lumberand20food
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:20 pm

opaca wrote:
Lettergreep wrote:
I just found out where to get the credit card (NOT the lich market you damned two-faced liars!)
my sides

I use my slayer to kill frenchmen and scout the map, but most players who abuse walling don't need their slayers as much, or simply don't use them at all.
If slayers were made more "useful", it would most likely be overpowered, especially in inhouse games, where the humans are more coordinated. It would also be a buff to those players who lose their base(or don't even base to begin with), and end up only controlling their slayers the entire game, giving the humans a huge advantage.
^

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:03 am

popopxD wrote:


@Sir & lettergreep: If they can't attack vamp, why should they named "slayer" ? Vampire Slayer is a unit trained to kill vampires. If they can't do their duty, they should be fired. #shouldnotwaste400lumberand20food

Ooohhh, a semantics argument, the best type of argument.

popopxD wrote:
#shouldnotwaste400lumberand20food
Anyone who gets a slayer for the purpose of killing the nosf is delusional, or in your case, bad.

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:02 am

okay, I should fire those useless slayer and hire a new guy

Vampirism Beast Open for application

Position: Vampire Slayer or anything that fit.
Requirement:
+ Know how to kill a Nosf or a Mini
+ Know how to make a scary avatar
+ Dedicated to your work
+ Love your work
+ Can deal critical strike to opaca's nosf or mini will be consider as a bonus
+ Can deal critical strike to opaca's mysterious french man will be consider as a huge bonus
+ Can banish opaca's nosf or lich will be consider as a bonus
+ If your scary avatar can kill opaca by a heart attack, i will hire you immediately
Benefit:
+ 400 lumber (combustible lumber to burn opaca's house down)
+ 20 food per second
+ A special blinking device that can teleport you to anywhere you want
+ A net
+ A hammer
+ Some upgrade to your HP as long as your controlling player is not turned into mini

Anyone who wishes to apply for this position, please send me private message with your CV as attachment

Best Regards.
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