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 Map Direction

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opaca
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:50 am

popopxD wrote:
If they can't attack vamp, why should they named "slayer" ? Vampire Slayer is a unit trained to kill vampires. If they can't do their duty, they should be fired. #shouldnotwaste400lumberand20food

popopxD wrote:
okay, I should fire those useless slayer and hire a new guy

Vampirism Beast Open for application

Position: Vampire Slayer or anything that fit.
Requirement:
+ Know how to kill a Nosf or a Mini
+ Know how to make a scary avatar
+ Dedicated to your work
+ Love your work
+ Can deal critical strike to opaca's nosf or mini will be consider as a bonus
+ Can deal critical strike to opaca's mysterious french man will be consider as a huge bonus
+ Can banish opaca's nosf or lich will be consider as a bonus
+ If your scary avatar can kill opaca by a heart attack, i will hire you immediately
Benefit:
+ 400 lumber (combustible lumber to burn opaca's house down)
+ 20 food per second
+ A special blinking device that can teleport you to anywhere you want
+ A net
+ A hammer
+ Some upgrade to your HP as long as your controlling player is not turned into mini

Anyone who wishes to apply for this position, please send me private message with your CV as attachment

Best Regards.
i think we found the first VB roleplayer

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Sir.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:17 pm

popopxD wrote:
lettergreep wrote:


Sir. wrote:
Personally I feel like slayers shouldn't be able to attack a nosf but only the mini's and vamp spawned units and graves.
How about only battle slayers can attack a nosf?

@Sir & lettergreep: If they can't attack vamp, why should they named "slayer" ? Vampire Slayer is a unit trained to kill vampires. If they can't do their duty, they should be fired. #shouldnotwaste400lumberand20food

Read what I posted before trying to be a smartass...Slayers can kill mini's and deny vamp spawned units and graves. Only really bad players need to attack a nosf with a slayer to feel safe, players with moderate levels of skill rely on warning walls and map awareness, Players with an abundance of skill rely on there ability to micro/macro human and base.

From the way you go on about humans apparently being nerfed to the point where vampires being OP id say you belong somewhere in the bad to moderate skilled range, But hell I am known to be wrong.

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popopxD
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:03 pm

Sir. wrote:
popopxD wrote:
lettergreep wrote:


Sir. wrote:
Personally I feel like slayers shouldn't be able to attack a nosf but only the mini's and vamp spawned units and graves.
How about only battle slayers can attack a nosf?

@Sir & lettergreep: If they can't attack vamp, why should they named "slayer" ? Vampire Slayer is a unit trained to kill vampires. If they can't do their duty, they should be fired. #shouldnotwaste400lumberand20food

Read what I posted before trying to be a smartass...Slayers can kill mini's and deny vamp spawned units and graves. Only really bad players need to attack a nosf with a slayer to feel safe, players with moderate levels of skill rely on warning walls and map awareness, Players with an abundance of skill rely on there ability to micro/macro human and base.

From the way you go on about humans apparently being nerfed to the point where vampires being OP id say you belong somewhere in the bad to moderate skilled range, But hell I am known to be wrong.

Did I mention something about attack a nosf with a slayer to feel safe ? Most of the time, slayer can't kill nosf but they annoy them. Because being attacked, nosf unit will strike back the damage source instead of continue what they are doing. Slayer's avatar attack can also slow the vamp.

OK I'm a very bad player, I'm also a noob, does that make you right ? Talking about fallacy, you are very good at it.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:54 am

this is a very entertaining thread.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:32 am

popopxD wrote:

OK I'm a very bad player, I'm also a noob, does that make you right ? Talking about fallacy, you are very good at it.
Generally, bad players aren't good at making balance changes(example: you actually think mega wall needs a buff), therefore his argument is very relevant

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:49 am

You guys are all bad.

Cashing in.

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:36 pm

the_deku_nutt wrote:
You guys are all bad.

Cashing in.

dat elitism
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:24 pm

opaca wrote:
popopxD wrote:

OK I'm a very bad player, I'm also a noob, does that make you right ? Talking about fallacy, you are very good at it.
Generally, bad players aren't good at making balance changes(example: you actually think mega wall needs a buff), therefore his argument is very relevant


Seriously ? Where did you get that idea ? The only change about wall I wanted to is nerf giga wall and do something with Omega Titan wall (remove/buff/nerf Ultra Titan) because almost no one need it atm. But I'm still thinking about it because it's not completed. Where you found the idea of popopxD want to buff mega wall ?

opaca wrote:
popopxD wrote:

OK I'm a very bad player, I'm also a noob, does that make you right ? Talking about fallacy, you are very good at it.
Generally, bad players aren't good at making balance changes(example: you actually think mega wall needs a buff), therefore his argument is very relevant

Generally, nosf lover always moan when human get a small buff (and they ignore that nosf have got a damn high buff). At least I'm not that kind of blinded.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:12 pm

popopxD wrote:


Seriously ? Where did you get that idea ? The only change about wall I wanted to is nerf giga wall and do something with Omega Titan wall (remove/buff/nerf Ultra Titan) because almost no one need it atm. But I'm still thinking about it because it's not completed. Where you found the idea of popopxD want to buff mega wall ?
You know it to be true, you can pretend in public that you didn't want it, but in reality it is.

opaca wrote:

Generally, bad players aren't good at making balance changes(example: you actually think mega wall needs a buff), therefore his argument is very relevant

popopxD wrote:
Generally, nosf lover always moan when human get a small buff (and they ignore that nosf have got a damn high buff). At least I'm not that kind of blinded.
Big vampire buff? You must have hit some new kind of stupid.

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:20 pm

opaca wrote:

You know it to be true, you can pretend in public that you didn't want it, but in reality it is.

In reality, I don't care Mega wall because I have thought of something bigger. Opaca, everytimes you vamp, you always think of a big picture, now your thought seems so small.... very disappointed.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:35 pm

popopxD wrote:
opaca wrote:
popopxD wrote:

OK I'm a very bad player, I'm also a noob, does that make you right ? Talking about fallacy, you are very good at it.
Generally, bad players aren't good at making balance changes(example: you actually think mega wall needs a buff), therefore his argument is very relevant


Seriously ? Where did you get that idea ? The only change about wall I wanted to is nerf giga wall and do something with Omega Titan wall (remove/buff/nerf Ultra Titan) because almost no one need it atm. But I'm still thinking about it because it's not completed. Where you found the idea of popopxD want to buff mega wall ?

opaca wrote:
popopxD wrote:

OK I'm a very bad player, I'm also a noob, does that make you right ? Talking about fallacy, you are very good at it.
Generally, bad players aren't good at making balance changes(example: you actually think mega wall needs a buff), therefore his argument is very relevant

Generally, nosf lover always moan when human get a small buff (and they ignore that nosf have got a damn high buff). At least I'm not that kind of blinded.

That's because up until now vampires were under-powered and most nosf players are usually pretty damn good human players too so they have the right to moan about it seeing as they play both sides, Where you have openly admitted to not playing nosf and still go on saying humans need buffing.


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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:18 pm

^

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:30 pm

Sir. wrote:

That's because up until now vampires were under-powered and most nosf players are usually pretty damn good human players too so they have the right to moan about it seeing as they play both sides, Where you have openly admitted to not playing nosf and still go on saying humans need buffing.


I dont see where I said that...
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:34 pm

popopxD wrote:
Sir. wrote:

That's because up until now vampires were under-powered and most nosf players are usually pretty damn good human players too so they have the right to moan about it seeing as they play both sides, Where you have openly admitted to not playing nosf and still go on saying humans need buffing.


I dont see where I said that...

You are joking right?

Almost every balance suggestion regarding vampires needing a buff has been intercepted by the baaaaad patrol that instantly try to justify why vampires don't need a buff due to them winning most games you play in.



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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:08 pm

the_deku_nutt wrote:
You guys are all bad.

Agreed.

Please refer back to the original post on map development (http://clanvbl.forumotion.com/t327-vampirism-beast-1500f-post-development) where popopXD volunteered to work on the map and triton144 began discussing it with him.  Instead of circling the wagons and engaging in personal attacks, try working with the two people that are trying to improve the map and are asking for our input.

Try showing him some of the same respect that he has shown us in this process.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:59 pm

Northern.Lite wrote:
the_deku_nutt wrote:
You guys are all bad.

Agreed.

Please refer back to the original post on map development (http://clanvbl.forumotion.com/t327-vampirism-beast-1500f-post-development) where popopXD volunteered to work on the map and triton144 began discussing it with him.  Instead of circling the wagons and engaging in personal attacks, try working with the two people that are trying to improve the map and are asking for our input.

Try showing him some of the same respect that he has shown us in this process.

You act as if working on the map is a heavy burden and popoXD took it for us. Hardly anything changed from 1.5 to the "new map". And popoxd volunteered to work on the map for his own benefit(example: his skin has 2 effects while everyone else's has 1)

Respect is earned, and popoxd hasn't earned mine, especially due to how he behaves in-game.

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:16 pm

Northern.Lite wrote:

This thread was intended to initiate community discussion of the map and proposed changes.  It is NOT for engaging in personal attacks.  From this point on, any attempts to flame anyone or hijack the thread from its intended purpose will be removed from the thread.  Keep your posts on point and constructive.
I've realised my folly now, I shouldn't have attacked someone like this on the forums
I'm sorry.

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:48 pm

I've told you people what changes needed to occur. They weren't suggestions, they were facts. The only real buff vampires received came in the form of tents not attacking.

Everything else that happened either did nothing to change the state of the game or was just a buff to humans. Blasting not bouncing off of gold mines was a dumb change. The better players have proved time and time again that with just a small amount of effort you can make blasting really inefficient to use; this change just made it even less useful.

TL;DR this is the same vamp beast it always was, only now the humans are actually way stronger since battle slayers can buy shards.

When I come home from work tonight I'll write *another* comprehensive post about everything that needs to happen to bring vampires up to snuff. Maybe now that more people have had their eyes opened a bit they'll be more receptive to complicated ideas.

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:03 pm

Even if you are completely right in everything say, it's always healthy to have someone take up the other side of the argument just to have a debate about it, as long as it's done constructively.
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:15 pm

the_deku_nutt wrote:
Blasting not bouncing off of gold mines was a dumb change. The better players have proved time and time again that with just a small amount of effort you can make blasting really inefficient to use; this change just made it even less useful.
I second this. Blasting goldmines was only really a problem if you were in a mid base, but even then it still could be deterred.
All the other corner bases can handle blasting just fine, so the nerf wasn't warranted.

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:45 pm

It's sad to see a flame war in every topic. I don't want you to think I'm not fixing real problems or afraid to, but I'm enrolled full time in school and I work on this in the few hours I have each weekend. Fixing the map isn't an overnight cure-all I had to start somewhere so I started with the bugs in the map and I added the skins in b/c I figure people would like that. Well now that's pretty much done so I'll move on to whatever's next so relax a few steps and quit panicking that all of your brilliant ideas aren't in there I'm still working on it. Things are different in the map even if they are not as evident as you would like.

~Triton144

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:43 pm

Triton is in college lol we cannot rush him as a community when he is the one actually taking charge to actually change the map and try to rebalance it. The changes will come eventually.

suggested changes
buff claws
buff termites
make mirror 1500
remove flute
make lich eyes 2 charges
make knights 2 but make them repair faster so if any of them fall out of base it is less forgiving for the player that let out the knights/ i know this is making the game harder but playing human is forgiving in the mistakes/time it takes to actually react to what the vamps do
remove useless crap/ blue orb crap in slayer tavern, etc
give tents a 4th upgrade for it to be able to attack as a gimmick thing LULZZ maybe even more upgrades after that
remove army lol so broken
bouncer tiimer to 20-25 seconds so it is less forgiving as well
change mana tower ratio #broken

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:59 pm

Triton144 wrote:
It's sad to see a flame war in every topic. I don't want you to think I'm not fixing real problems or afraid to, but I'm enrolled full time in school and I work on this in the few hours I have each weekend. Fixing the map isn't an overnight cure-all I had to start somewhere so I started with the bugs in the map and I added the skins in b/c I figure people would like that. Well now that's pretty much done so I'll move on to whatever's next so relax a few steps and quit panicking that all of your brilliant ideas aren't in there I'm still working on it. Things are different in the map even if they are not as evident as you would like.

~Triton144

Nobody thinks that lord Triton <3

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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:17 pm

the_deku_nutt wrote:

TL;DR this is the same vamp beast it always was, only now the humans are actually way stronger since battle slayers can buy shards.

I think so....bslayer was strong and annoying so my first solution came with remove the ability to have shard from bslayer (it's also easier than remove the rending effect from shard/rend claw). But having shard on bslayer will be the first test Triton wanted to see if that shard is overpowered on bslayer or not.

The blasting nerf wasn't mine idea, you can discuss with Triton.

comelate wrote:
bouncer tiimer to 20-25 seconds so it is less forgiving as well
If you want to nerf bouncer, make it 1 time only. It was intended to have 14 min cooldown, but problem is maximum cooldown in w3 engine is 5 min, 20 ~ 25 sec is way too short
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PostSubject: Re: Map Direction   Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:29 pm

comelate wrote:
bouncer tiimer to 20-25 seconds so it is less forgiving as well
[/quote]If you want to nerf bouncer, make it 1 time only. It was intended to have 14 min cooldown, but problem is maximum cooldown in w3 engine is 5 min, 20 ~ 25 sec is way too short[/quote]

i was not talking about the cooldown.... how long they last
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