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 Item Rework

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Triton144
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PostSubject: Item Rework   Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:23 pm

Currently working on reworking 2 items Flute and replicator, but I want people's input as to what they would like to see as far as these two items. Keep in mind we are trying to prevent mass fluting and replicating not promote it. What would you like to see?

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the_deku_nutt
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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:51 pm

Remove both, buff cooldown on repair bolt to promote skill.

Replicator is flawed "WIN MORE" item. If you can buy it you were already going to win.

Remove knights too, make portable portals affortable and global cast range. Makes humans have to respond to aggression as a team instead of automatically saving walls for free. Also promotes earlier teching to unlock HP upgrade. Anything that increases potential skill cap is a good thing.

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:52 am

Replicator is an item that 90% at least of humans in any game never use.  Rather than rework it, why not just remove it?

I do not, however, think that removing knights is a good idea.   It is difficult enough right now to get the newer players to understand the humans as a team concept. Some kind of nerf, perhaps?
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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:06 am

Northern.Lite wrote:
I do not, however, think that removing knights is a good idea. It is difficult enough right now to get the newer players to understand the humans as a team concept.
Is that why most new players ask to doublebase? But since you brought new players up, here's a fact: most can't figure it out on their own that Holy Horseshoes is used to repair walls.

In my opinion, removing knights has nothing to do with new players. Removing knights would make playing without a leak very hard if the nosfs level tome, if not impossible.

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:49 am

opaca wrote:


In my opinion, removing knights has nothing to do with new players. Removing knights would make playing without a leak very hard if the nosfs level tome, if not impossible.

I suggested in skype to move roar to level 60 and buff the numbers a bit, while moving death coil to 40 and making it remotely useful. Knights are such an easymode answer to vampire aggression it's not even funny. Combined up with intelligent decisions like det'ing buffs and getting mana towers and vampires can't do anything to humans who rotate knights. Oh no a roared frenchy? Time to just detonate a cheap unit on it and not care.

Half the viable roar strategies are only viable because humans play greed.

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:52 am

Northern.Lite wrote:
Replicator is an item that 90% at least of humans in any game never use.  Rather than rework it, why not just remove it?

I do not, however, think that removing knights is a good idea.   It is difficult enough right now to get the newer players to understand the humans as a team concept.  Some kind of nerf, perhaps?

Can't constantly cater to the lowest tier of a community, even if they constitute a relevant percentage of the userbase. I don't know we can't just expect the bad players to get good, we're not playing a complicated game here.

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:53 am

I meant doublechain deku, the vamps can doublechain you before you can get human hp if you didn't get a leak. But I like your idea of making death coil useful

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:02 am

opaca wrote:
I meant doublechain deku, the vamps can doublechain you before you can get human hp if you didn't get a leak. But I like your idea of making death coil useful

You can get tier 2 rather early, just decrease the gold cost on human HP upgrade.

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:28 am

Shameless advertisement of my own ideas, if horseshoe is a problem, there is this one suggestion making horseshoe only available to repair slayers...
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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:20 pm

lettergreep wrote:
Shameless advertisement of my own ideas, if horseshoe is a problem, there is this one suggestion making horseshoe only available to repair slayers...

Viable strategy, Brings an element of Risk/Reward to humans.

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:49 pm

It would require some tinkering with hammers though, since would be quite expensive just for the purpose of enabling knights. Or not, and suddenly fatass walls are fine because they're the only defense humans have now aside from their own repairman / other humans exposing themself to the risk of repairing a base under siege.
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popopxD
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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:48 am

I think the replicator is designed to replicate the elder beast wall or the chaos beast wall in some case you cannot get 20k gold before vamp have full item, but there are a chaos beast wall.

FHF did set the cooldown time to 14 min, but problem is the maximum cooldown is 5 min (anything higher than 5 min will be 5 min). So I suggest it should be able to replicate 1 time only.


About the horse: FHF also wanted to nerf the horseman. If I remember correctly, it's the same bug with Repair slayer: he set them repair faster (than human) instead of slower by mistake.
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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:28 am

popopxD wrote:
So I suggest it should be able to replicate 1 time only.

Your suggestion is meaningless, nobody respects you for your skill.
Just because you "work" on the map doesn't mean Triton will listen to you

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:17 pm

opaca wrote:
popopxD wrote:
So I suggest it should be able to replicate 1 time only.

Your suggestion is meaningless, nobody respects you for your skill.
Just because you "work" on the map doesn't mean Triton will listen to you

I just give my idea like you guys. Everybody have the right to give their own idea. Did I reject your idea because you sound so arrogant ? I still listen to you guy and discuss. Did I mention something "I'm the developer, you should hear me bla bla bla" ? Come on opaca.
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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:18 pm

popopxD wrote:


I just give my idea like you guys. Everybody have the right to give their own idea. Did I reject your idea because you sound so arrogant ? I still listen to you guy and discuss. Did I mention something "I'm the developer, you should hear me bla bla bla" ? Come on opaca.
You have the right to make suggestions and I have the right to tell you that they are shit, don't I?

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:40 pm

opaca wrote:
popopxD wrote:


I just give my idea like you guys. Everybody have the right to give their own idea. Did I reject your idea because you sound so arrogant ? I still listen to you guy and discuss. Did I mention something "I'm the developer, you should hear me bla bla bla" ? Come on opaca.
You have the right to make suggestions and I have the right to tell you that they are shit, don't I?

even though he worded it in such a blunt way Opaca does have a point, After all, Your all pretty damn quick to make shitty replies to me and call me a troll.


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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:41 pm

opaca wrote:
popopxD wrote:


I just give my idea like you guys. Everybody have the right to give their own idea. Did I reject your idea because you sound so arrogant ? I still listen to you guy and discuss. Did I mention something "I'm the developer, you should hear me bla bla bla" ? Come on opaca.
You have the right to make suggestions and I have the right to tell you that they are shit, don't I?

If you cant tell why they are bad, your argument is just trash talk. If you just fallacy, they are even worse than trash talk. By the way, if you trash talk too much, I will just add to my ignore list (because they are shit Wink).

Is that how you make people listen to you ? Go on, I bet after the next reply, you will be added to my ignore list. After all, you just care about buff mysterious frenchman, not fixing/rework all other the stuff.  You want to trash talk in all the rework topic so they will end up not being developed and just a garbage topic with all non-sense controversy out-topic.

Did any of you think about the cheap shield can be used to stop flute abuse ? Did any of you think which way to fuse the shield with something (like the mirror concoc) so it will help the vamp save some slot for inventory ? Nope. Did you know that the credit card effect (wall still getting damage after vamp stopped attack them) is just memory leak from bad coding and I still leave it there  because it's good for the vamp ? Nope. All you did is attack my personality, accusing me for buffing megawall, but hilarious thing is: it wont work. The more you do it, the more reputation you lose.

By the way, if someone doubt about adding -popoxd to the map, they can find a guy who know vjass,  ask Triton for permission and I will give you the unobfuscated version/instruct how to decompile to see for yourself.


Last edited by popopxD on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:23 pm

relax
if you want reputation, build one
and i'm not losing reputation because of this, trust me

Quote :
Did you know that the credit card effect (wall still getting damage after vamp stopped attack them) is just memory leak from bad coding and I still leave it there  because it's good for the vamp ?
even if you wanted to remove it, "bad coding" would not be a valid reason to remove the daamage from Credit Card and it also wouldn't be accepted by the community. Just how much power do you think you own?

popopxD wrote:

Did any of you think about the cheap shield can be used to stop flute abuse ?
The cheap shield might be cheap in cost, but it's very expensive to the inventory. The vampire can't afford to use it simply because the humans feel like abusing flute, every slot is vital.

popopxD wrote:

Did any of you think which way to fuse the shield with something (like the mirror concoc) so it will help the vamp save some slot for inventory ? Nope.
Fusing the shield with another item in order to stop mass banish is a worse and less well-thought way of fixing the problem, and it isn't even reliable (you can still banish through shield)

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:36 pm

opaca wrote:

Quote :
Did you know that the credit card effect (wall still getting damage after vamp stopped attack them) is just memory leak from bad coding and I still leave it there  because it's good for the vamp ?
even if you wanted to remove it, "bad coding" would not be a valid reason to remove the daamage from Credit Card and it also wouldn't be accepted by the community. Just how much power do you think you own?
The problem is the memory leak, not the power of bla bla bla thing. It should stop dealing damage after the vamp attack the wall is the intent of original developer (FHF or Gwypass or M2TM or whoever made that, and u r not pro than them if you call me noob). Community ? I haven't ask them yet and if I have ever intent to do that I will ask community from another topic or a poll or just simply ask Triton, not you. You are not the community.

popopxD wrote:

Fusing the shield with another item in order to stop mass banish is a worse and less well-thought way of fixing the problem, and it isn't even reliable (you can still banish through shield)

So the shield was there for no reason. Who ever wrote in the shield description that it can stop the flute (banish effect still work but the wielder wont be teleport) is a less well thought guy. GJ opaca


Last edited by popopxD on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:41 pm

popopxD wrote:

The problem is the memory leak, not the power of bla bla bla thing. It should stop dealing damage after the vamp attack the wall is the right way to do.
Why is it the right way? Because that's how it's "supposed" to be? It seems discussing balance with you is not worth my time.

popopxD wrote:
Community ? I haven't ask them yet and if I have ever intent to do that I will ask community from another topic or a poll or just simply ask Triton, not you.
you estimate improperly how much influence I have





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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:42 pm

popopxD wrote:
opaca wrote:

Quote :
Did you know that the credit card effect (wall still getting damage after vamp stopped attack them) is just memory leak from bad coding and I still leave it there  because it's good for the vamp ?
even if you wanted to remove it, "bad coding" would not be a valid reason to remove the daamage from Credit Card and it also wouldn't be accepted by the community. Just how much power do you think you own?
The problem is the memory leak, not the power of bla bla bla thing. It should stop dealing damage after the vamp attack the wall is the intent of original developer (FHF or Gwypass or M2TM or whoever made that, and u r not pro than them if you call me noob). Community ? I haven't ask them yet and if I have ever intent to do that I will ask community from another topic or a poll or just simply ask Triton, not you. You are not the community.

popopxD wrote:

Fusing the shield with another item in order to stop mass banish is a worse and less well-thought way of fixing the problem, and it isn't even reliable (you can still banish through shield)

So the shield was there for no reason

You would alienate the best nosf in the community because he singlehandedly counters every single balance issue you bring up?

This is the VB community your all trying to protect....and its a fucking map editor!

Kudos.

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:45 pm

opaca wrote:
popopxD wrote:

The problem is the memory leak, not the power of bla bla bla thing. It should stop dealing damage after the vamp attack the wall is the right way to do.
Why is it the right way? Because that's how it's "supposed" to be? It seems discussing balance with you is not worth my time.

A bug cannot be considered as well balance factor. It's not reliable.

opaca wrote:

popopxD wrote:
Community ? I haven't ask them yet and if I have ever intent to do that I will ask community from another topic or a poll or just simply ask Triton, not you.
you estimate improperly how much influence I have

You are not the community, even if you are the leader, you can't make 100% of this community is under your control.
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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:46 pm

popopxD wrote:

A bug cannot be considered as well balance factor. It's not reliable.
the bug is not realiable if the map constantly changes, which it doesn't

popopxD wrote:

You are not the community, even if you are the leader, you can't make 100% of this community is under your control.
I never said I'm the community, I simply know for a fact it won't be accepted

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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:47 pm

popopxD wrote:
opaca wrote:
popopxD wrote:

The problem is the memory leak, not the power of bla bla bla thing. It should stop dealing damage after the vamp attack the wall is the right way to do.
Why is it the right way? Because that's how it's "supposed" to be? It seems discussing balance with you is not worth my time.

A bug cannot be considered as well balance factor. It's not reliable.

opaca wrote:

popopxD wrote:
Community ? I haven't ask them yet and if I have ever intent to do that I will ask community from another topic or a poll or just simply ask Triton, not you.
you estimate improperly how much influence I have

You are not the community, even if you are the leader, you can't make 100% of this community is under your control.

Communities usually have a voice that has the most weight behind it, When it comes to Vamping id put all my reputation on the line to say he has the heaviest voice in the community *Deku isn't classed as the community because the admins don't like it when a troll has legit reasons to troll*


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PostSubject: Re: Item Rework   Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:48 pm

opaca wrote:
popopxD wrote:

A bug cannot be considered as well balance factor. It's not reliable.
the bug is not realiable if the map constantly changes, which it doesn't

If FHF didn't lost the unprotected map, it would be fun at this moment. You must thank him again for that.

Sir. wrote:

Communities usually have a voice that has the most weight behind it, When it comes to Vamping id put all my reputation on the line to say he has the heaviest voice in the community *Deku isn't classed as the community because the admins don't like it when a troll has legit reasons to troll*


Community have people and each of them have their own brain. They can make decision on their own, they are not dumb to listen to a weighted voice. The most weight voice, if not right, will be rejected by community as a point and it's called revolution. The only weighted in community is about which is right and wrong. Being the best vamp or best king doesn't make you right. Being right make you right.


Last edited by popopxD on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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