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 help me fix failures

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Black-Aegis
Peon
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Battle.net Name : Black-Aegis
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Age : 27
Location : Argentina

PostSubject: help me fix failures   Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:43 pm

I want to know about my failures in the game so i can fix them...

http://www.speedyshare.com/P4Bmv/lol.w3g

thanks (and im know sure if this post belong here lol!)

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Triton144
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:05 am

K I'll walk through the game. Don't get worker motivation. Make only one fat wall and make it back out of inferno range later on don't make more than one fat unless you need it before t4. Make sure you rebuild your workers immediately if you have to det you had about 2:30 minutes with 20/300. You need to create your super workers faster you waited almost a minute to train them after getting the gold. Make your disaster in an unhammerable spot (8 spaces from wall). You sphere proofed way to soon. No chance they coulda had the sphere by then. Only get 4 uber lumber workers and 22 gms (44 income) Don't god wall before t4. If they're fed or d toming you can get little god it will hold fine. Don't buy armor upgrades before t4. Took you 8 mins to make t4 lumber harvesters after you built cc. Never sphere proofed the back of your base. Get the hp upgrade for towers sometime after you cc. Build 2 red gems and 2 purple gems right after you cc that way you have enough gems once you need them. Get 200 income and then get the hammer upgrade for your prosp slayer at your cc. stop converting gold to lumber at 200 income. Get the hp upgrade for your human after you cc.


http://www.speedyshare.com/CXnej/Stomp-Game.w3g Watch this replay. I basically play this same game in the same base. Vamps are fed and everyone but me dies early. Also shows how to prevent blasting gem on mines. Hope this helps! Goodluck!
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Black-Aegis
Peon
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Battle.net Name : Black-Aegis
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Join date : 2013-06-12
Age : 27
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:24 am

thanks triton. i'll take a look and try to fix my mistakes lol see you in game

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Emo.Donky
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:04 am

Triton144 wrote:
K I'll walk through the game. Don't get worker motivation. Make only one fat wall and make it back out of inferno range later on don't make more than one fat unless you need it before t4. Make sure you rebuild your workers immediately if you have to det you had about 2:30 minutes with 20/300. You need to create your super workers faster you waited almost a minute to train them after getting the gold. Make your disaster in an unhammerable spot (8 spaces from wall). You sphere proofed way to soon. No chance they coulda had the sphere by then. Only get 4 uber lumber workers and 22 gms (44 income) Don't god wall before t4. If they're fed or d toming you can get little god it will hold fine. Don't buy armor upgrades before t4. Took you 8 mins to make t4 lumber harvesters after you built cc. Never sphere proofed the back of your base. Get the hp upgrade for towers sometime after you cc. Build 2 red gems and 2 purple gems right after you cc that way you have enough gems once you need them. Get 200 income and then get the hammer upgrade for your prosp slayer at your cc. stop converting gold to lumber at 200 income. Get the hp upgrade for your human after you cc.


http://www.speedyshare.com/CXnej/Stomp-Game.w3g Watch this replay. I basically play this same game in the same base. Vamps are fed and everyone but me dies early. Also shows how to prevent blasting gem on mines. Hope this helps! Goodluck!
At 200 gold income, the properity slayer cc upgrade only adds 17 income and costs 500 gold, at that rate it would take like ~30 mins to make back your gold :s
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Triton144
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:46 pm

At 200 income you gain 21 income from it, 17 from gws and 4 from gms. You can make 3 gws a half minute. That means every 30 secs it goes up by 3 every and 10 gws it goes up by 2 income instead of 1 income per gw. So if you hammer at 00 then your fist half minute you'd get 24 gold from it. 27,30,34 and so on. It takes 6 mins to make 504 gold. 

After looking at it the hammer is worth it at 200 and 250 income but 250 is slightly faster to spire.
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Black-Aegis
Peon
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:44 pm

thats interesting ,i'll take a look right now and try to have 200/300 at least lol
i have looked the othe post i only need practice xD

by the way, i was wondering if there is any ai of the map?? cuz' playing alone right now doesn't work lol....

thanks

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Triton144
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:52 pm

200/300? We are debating about gold well income after we tier 4 not about our food you should have 300/300 food at all times.

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Black-Aegis
Peon
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:41 pm

200/300 at te very start its what i mean... about the gold wells and tier 4 im looking it

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opaca
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:31 pm

good job triton

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Emo.Donky
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:48 am

Triton144 wrote:
At 200 income you gain 21 income from it, 17 from gws and 4 from gms. You can make 3 gws a half minute. That means every 30 secs it goes up by 3 every and 10 gws it goes up by 2 income instead of 1 income per gw. So if you hammer at 00 then your fist half minute you'd get 24 gold from it. 27,30,34 and so on. It takes 6 mins to make 504 gold. 

After looking at it the hammer is worth it at 200 and 250 income but 250 is slightly faster to spire.
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Triton144
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:57 pm

Also the 3 gws per half mintue is not including the amount of gw income you get from converting. So in reality it will be much sooner probabaly 4 mins or so.

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Endivius
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:12 pm

gold wells provide income every 15 seconds, gold mines are per minute. Gold wells provide 4 ticks per minute, so a single gold well increases your income by a total of 22 per minute, at that pace it takes an income of 200g to repay the cost of the upgrade about 45 seconds, if you include the income you currently have and do not intend to continue to make more gold wells.
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czydude
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:01 pm

Endivius wrote:
gold wells provide income every 15 seconds, gold mines are per minute. Gold wells provide 4 ticks per minute, so a single gold well increases your income by a total of 22 per minute, at that pace it takes an income of 200g to repay the cost of the upgrade about 45 seconds, if you include the income you currently have and do not intend to continue to make more gold wells.

whered you get 22 per minute from? gold wells have 4 times the income as gold mines at 5 times the cost.

since 4x15sec = 60 sec. and 100k lumber = 5 x 20k lumber
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:03 pm

czydude wrote:
Endivius wrote:
gold wells provide income every 15 seconds, gold mines are per minute. Gold wells provide 4 ticks per minute, so a single gold well increases your income by a total of 22 per minute, at that pace it takes an income of 200g to repay the cost of the upgrade about 45 seconds, if you include the income you currently have and do not intend to continue to make more gold wells.

whered you get 22 per minute from? gold wells have 4 times the income as gold mines at 5 times the cost.

since 4x15sec = 60 sec. and 100k lumber = 5 x 20k lumber

Gold wells get 4x the benefit of a prosperity slayer. The bonus % is the same, but the wells tick 4 times as often. One gold well provides 4 gold per 15 seconds, gold mines provide 2 gold per minute,

16 * 25% = 4.
4 + 16 = 20

example, 50 gold wells provide 200g per tick. 25% of 200 is 50 bonus gold. New total is 250g per 15 second tick. Total income becomes 1000g + the gold mines, wich are roughly gonna be between 42-46 depending on where you stopped making regular mines, for a total of about 1042-1046g per minute. Keep in mind the command center also provides a passive 35g every 15 seconds as well.

as a side note, gold wells provide 8 times the income of a gold mine, at 5 times the cost. And that is without a prosperity slayer, the number grows even higher depending on the level of hammer the prosperity slayer has. First purchase is i believe 10%, first upgrade is 15%,second upgrade is 20%, third is 25%. So at full tier 4 upgrades, a gold well produces 5g per 15 seconds for a total of 20g per minute per gold well not inluding the gold mines and command center wich comes to roughly 22g each unless you go totally nuts and build like 90 gold wells.

protip: do not upgrade gold mines into goldwells, you already paid 20k lumber to build them and it costs the same amount to upgrade a gold mine to a gold well as it does to just build a gold well. You actually lose income upgrading gold mines into gold wells. Each time you upgrade a well, you are gaining the benefit of the gold well, but losing the benefit of the gold mine. Since the cost is the same, there is no reason to upgrade a gold mine into a gold well, ever.


Last edited by Endivius on Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:20 pm

After further testing it appears that the slayer hammer upgrades offer differing bonuses to each income type.

Gold mines
hammer purchase 10%
first upgrade 12%
second upgrade 18%
third upgrade 23%
fourth upgrade 50%
Gold wells
hammer purchase 10%
first upgrade 15%
second upgrade 20%
third upgrade 25-26%
fourth upgrade 50%
Gould Fountain
Hammer purchase 10%
first upgrade 15%
second upgrade 22%
third upgrade 26-27% there is deffinitely an interger used here, but couldn't nail it down exactly.
fourth upgrade 50-51%

tested by hitting spire, building an income of 10 g from mines, 20g from wells and 200g from fountain, and then picking up the hammer and observing the bonus gained with each upgrade.

final note, spire grants gold bonuses every 10 seconds. Gold fountain provides six times the number of counters on it every 5 seconds. So 30 charges is equal to 180 income ever 5 seconds (without a prosperity slayer) and with a prosperity hammer fully upgraded that becomes 270g every 5 seconds. As far as i can tell prosperity does not appear to grant bonus income from command center or spire, just to gold mines, gold wells, and gold fountain.

*edit*
Gold fountain ticks every 5 seconds, providing a total of 12 ticks per minute. When created it has a flat 23 counters on it meaning it is producing 138g every 5 seconds for a total of 1656g per minute on creation.
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:39 am

Further Math:

Prosperity slayer hammer purchase 20g 25000 lumber
with 21 gold mines this provides a 4g bonus income, which would take 5 minutes to pay for itself

Prosperity slayer hammer upgrade 20g 30000 lumber
with 21 gold mines and 5 gold wells this provides a 14g bonus income, which would take another 2 minutes to pay for itself.

prosperity slayer hammer upgrade 50g 50000 lumber
with 21 gold mines and 5 gold wells this provides an 18g bonus income, which would take 3 minutes to pay for itself.

prosperity slayer hammer upgrade 500g 2500000 lumber
with 21 gold mines and 10 gold wells this provides a 44g bonus income, which would take 11 minutes to pay for itself.

Ideally, based on the raw numbers, and not including continuing to build more gold wells, it would appear that getting the first 2 upgrades as soon as you have hit tier 4 allows for the greatest income return. If you can get the tier 4 hammer upgrade by the time the gateway to hell opens it will be profitable before the forge opens and not a loss of income. At the latest it would need to be purchased at least 7 minutes before the forge opens (12 minute mark) in order to keep from losing income, wich may be the difference between a 7 minute spire and having to beastwall when the forge opens.
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:15 pm

Nice!

really great job i must say, thanks for the information.

i didn't know about the gold of cc and spire.

thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:31 am

(this is justin) black-aegis if you really want to get better join the clanvbl2 bot when im on(sregginetahi_) and i will help you out step by step. new version 1000% harder and i guarantee i can actually get u doing good after 5 games. you seem like you acually want to get better and not abuse and what not. within a week i can make u better than the so called best vb players now of days.

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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:37 am

opaca wrote:
(this is justin) black-aegis if you really want to get better join the clanvbl2 bot when im on(sregginetahi_) and i will help you out step by step. new version 1000% harder and i guarantee i can actually get u doing good after 5 games. you seem like you acually want to get better and not abuse and what not. within a week i can make u better than the so called best vb players now of days.

Ass feeling okay Opaca?
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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:40 am

(this is justin) na he let me get on his account because im to lazy to make my own. or it dont really matter which ever you prefer. but emo hows your ass feeling you seem like a vbl groupie now of days. your situation reminds me a lot of what happened at pen state.

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PostSubject: Re: help me fix failures   Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:17 pm

Always liked playing with justin, Even when hes in the middle of being graved, shaded, frenchies, chains, transmog he usually still helps out with questions.

Top notch tutor me says

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